Missing my Son or Daughter

For all of us that are suffering the loss a son or daughter.

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  • Grace

    It still seems like he should still be here... but he is not..... I remember our life with him... and now there is a new life without him.... somedays it is ok and some days I dread for the following days to come.... my other kids are grown and when they leave ... I fear this house is gonna become big and empty.    Yet when he was here... he was such a handful..... hwe had a lot of stress living with a child with special needs.... days I did not have that were good.... Yet now the days are soooo empty.... should be less stressful now that he has left us in such quiet.... Yet it just feels so NOT NORMAL to have what others would think is More NORMAL now.   Somedays I am relieved that no one can hurt him anymore (Such as School fights for his education).... Maybe he is safe?  How could Death be a "Safe" place?

    It is still just SOOOOO Hard.  It still doesn't seem like it should be real.... yet I still sit here... typing in the total quiet.... and he is not here....

  • Sophia

    I too am trying to think of ways to memorialize my 22yr old son. We are coming up on the 1yr 'anniversary' of his death, 11/13/11. I'v always strongly disliked the holiday season for various reasons. Now, I have even more reason to & I'm completely dreading it all! I would like to make a quilt from his clothes one day but I'm not ready for this yet. I miss him so, so much & when Stephanie wrote "when it's our children it's so different, their lives are never over", I felt I related to this comment. Although, i am over- whelmed with the thought of how final death is, I am also over- whelmed with thought's of how I can keep his memory alive especially with the one year 'anniversary' approaching. I continue to 'put on a happy face' to friends but it's hard & I feel so very alone in all this grief. I haven't spoken to my son's father really, only once breifly, since our sons death. He was the one to find James dead and I think it's time we talked. I appreciate this site to vent with others who understand the pain associated with losing a child.  I have lost people close to me, including my best friend who was brutally murdered by her husband in 1996. I have to say losing one's child is just something one's mind just is not meant to process. I don't know that I will ever accept it, or move on - these things don't happen when you lose a child.

  • Karen R.

    Hi Sophia, you are right, how do you "move on" without your child, I can't perceive how to do that.

  • Stephanie

    KAREN, i had to smile reading yr post cos that's exactly what i do. i put her pics up, then i take them down, then i put her shirt in my closet, then i change it to my dresser, then into a bag, then the pics up again, all depending on my emotions. i'm sure people think i'm crazy, but at least i know i'm not alone - we just know A DIFFERENT NORMAL xxxx

     

  • Stephanie

    GRACE i know exactly wat ur saying. many people - altho not exactly in those words - i think thought that my life would be more "back to normal" without now havin a special needs child. bless her, she took up every living moment of my life. and of all things my life is CERTAINLY NOT MORE NORMAL!!!  i know the silence of their not being there. it's hard, so hard

  • Stephanie

    Sophia, u really r not alone, i know we all put on that brave face... no one can begin to imagine our feelings. maybe talk to ur son's dad, maybe it wd be good for u. maybe it's time. hang in x x x x

  • Grace

    My husband and I are a singing duet... there is a Brandi Carlise song called "The Story"  I can relate to it as a line says:  "All of these Lines across my face tell you the story of who I am.......  (Another verse) You See the Smile that's on my Mouth...it's hiding the words that don't come out..... and All of my friends who think that I'm Blessed .... They Don't know MY head is a Mess... No they don't know who I really am and they don't know what I've been through like you do.... and I was made for you..."   Yeah we all where our Happy Face mask almost every day.

  • Stephanie

    wat appropriate words for our feelings....

     

  • Stephanie

  • Michelle W

    Stephanie,
    I also lbe the quilt idea.., not there yet but my son had a teeshirt for everything..., we also have a scholarship at the high school in his name that we will keep going.,,, I have been getting extremely panicy no sleep again like when the accident happened ..,,do I too hate the holidays 11/26 will be a year oh and to put the cherry on the cake my daughter is moving back out this week just like last year when the accident happened oh a month earlier,,,, I will let you know any new thoughts on the day.,,,my daughter is trying to help in this matter .,,,hug to all..,don't you think the hug is just perfect on that hard day..,,
  • Grace

    I think it has been so hard to have my older kids grow up so fast... I feel like I need someone to nurture... and they do not want it ....my daughter is 23 and my son is 20..... it has been 3 years... but I still want to hold on tight to them... I know I need to let them spread thier wings... but I have the urge to hold on and be protective....  My Niles needed me so much and now it seems like the house is so empty.   I feel that panic feeling too... Michelle.  it has been like the whole house was emptied at once.... even though they both live here... they are hardly ever home and we barely bump in to each other let alone talk or do anything together... except for the benefit.  Our life revolved around Niles now it is like we have spun away from the center.

  • Stephanie

    guys i have panic also something terrible, my anxiety became so bad, i went to a dr recently, he put me on some meds. i can truly say it has helped me tremendously.  there are still times when the anxiety seeps in and i'm sure you know it is NOT EASY to overcome it that easily. i wish i could carve her name into a wooden objec - but what object? or i saw these beautiful crystal blocks, where they can use a foto of her and put it in - beautiful, but bit expensive; or -- i don't know, that's for US, but how to not let people forget her. maybe get a blog page for her.... ?

  • Michelle W

    Stephanie,
    My son had a my space page if you search Billy Waldo you can see his page I have really no control on it but my daughter has his password and stuff and updates new pictures and events if we every had any.,, it is a nice place for friends to leave thoughts and messages for him,, I feel closer to him to go read the postings sometimes.,,, you should go check it out of course be prepared he was alive when this was set up and did die with may people posting on that day they all saw the accident it was a school event.., but it keeps him alive(:.,,, that makes me happy.,,,
  • Stephanie

    michelle, i just went to look at Billy's page, it's so beautiful. i'm so so very sorry for yr loss... it's not even a year yeet for you? still so very sore... lots and lots of love and hugs - steph xxx

  • Michelle W

    Stephanie,
    Thank you, yes the year is slowly creeping up all I can do is think of my son in the garage a Halloween and asking if he would hand out the candy with the friends he had over so the dogs wouldn't bark..,, he just smiled and said of course..,, do he actually met all of our neighbors first.,,I also have had way too many panic attacks lately but I was told not to try to medicate to greif that it will wait for you and come back ,,,?? I really don't know .... I'm definately not a pro at this,,,,so i have. Desided to try to tough it out,,,,hugs
  • Angel

    Good morning...everyone......I've been reading but nothing to say ...sad...that we all understand each other and there are no words...to comfort..and take the loss and pain of losing our babies away...Panic attacks are so normal..Stephanie ..Ialso had to go on meds..I couldn't take it anymore...and when my husband passed on her birthday...they started again....Michelle....sadly the day will come and go ..and the build up is what makes us hurt so much ..we just don't know what to expect..."what will I feel like" besides the inevitable thoughts of our child...for everyone a birthday ..an anniversary are all different...we will alll be here inlove and thoughts with you....

  • Stephanie

    michelle, if u're strong enough to tough it out, that's great. for me, my anxiety became truly debilitating. i am quite a believer in meds, to HELP, definitely not to abuse them. it is helping me a great deal, just to deal with life, day to day, my other kids, all the demands. it definitely doesn't HIDE wat happened, and every so often i have a very big sobbing session.

  • Stephanie

    hi ANGEL, thanx for the support. i feel better that i'm not the only one taking meds. actually i thought way more people were on meds generally, anti-depressants etc. i don't know if i fully support those dr's and therapists that encourage us to rather embrace the pain. it's like not taking pain killers when u're a migraine sufferer. if meds are there to help then why not use them?  i do understand though, the fear of becoming dependent on meds. i don't fear that. it helps me. u are right - it's so hard to all support each other, but even though there are not always words, at least we know we are all here for each other. i think that in itself makes the world of difference ((hugs)) steph

  • Sophia

    The words of that song from the comment posted by Grace on monday really do fit how I feel too.  Thank you, anyone who replyed about my post. I know I'm not alone & that anyone who's lost a child feels the same emptiness in their hearts, minds & souls - it's an emptiness that is really beyond what words can express. I find that I see life, people and really everything differently now. I'v always been an optimist, always looked at the glass as half full but now I just feel that this is all just so temporary. I try to get through each day as best I can, without breaking down or just giving up. I have 2 other children 20yrs and 12 yrs, which keep my head on straight. It is so hard for them too. I talk with them about how their feeling and this is so life changing for all of us. Again, Jimmy died 11/13/11 just 10 days after my 20yr old's birthday & leading into the wonderful holiday season. I think I was stil in shock last holiday season this actually feels like the first year with out him around during the holidays and I'm dreading it for all of us. I have to remain strong and I will, it stil sometimes feels like this is a bad nightmare that I'm waiting to wake up from. I'll be greiving the remainder of my life and I do hope to one day see my sweet Jimmy again!

  • Sophia

    Hi everyone. I was just reading the comments posted about taking medication for panic attacks & I want to comment: I too am taking meds for panic attacks & with-out them I would be even more of a wreck. I work in the medical field & I know first hand how mis-used these types of meds are. ie, benzodiazepines - xanax & the like, what used to be know as valium - they are essentially the same thing. Either way, if when a person loses a child isn't an appropriate time to be prescribed this med. then I don't know when is!?! So many, too many people are precribed these meds when they truly don't need them but I know I do right now. If you believe you need something to help you then I believe you should use something prescribed by a doctor. Un-treated panic attacks or depression could easily lead to self medication. Not to say it will but it could. Everyone is different and so medication is not for everyone.   No-one, no doctor of any study of medicine - psychiatry or otherwise - could possibly know what we are experiencing emotionally, without having experienced it themselves. Many doctors, not all but many, like to believe they know everything but they are just people like everyone else. People who have gone to school for too long and as a result are quite out of touch with life. Just my humble opinion I wanted to share.

  • Stephanie

    Thanx Sophia, i do agree with u fully. I myself am not in the medical field, but have grown up with it. My dad was a doctor. Looking after my CP child, with all the really hectic medical complications, for 12 years, and my sister being an O.T. working in psychiatrics, and my other daughter has Bipolar ... well, I've sure had my fair share. And I totally agree. So many people gave their "advice" about my kids' meds. My dad would tell me OF COURSE u wouldn't give yr kids Valproic Acid or Lithium etc if they weren't havin seizures and bipolar etc etc, but they NEED it. And i've always remembered that... and i need the meds thta i take - under a psychiatrist - it helps me. lots of love.

     

  • Stephanie

    and also SOPHIA, u certainly will see your precious Jimmy again. For now we have to do the best we can for our other kids. I think maybe I purpose here is all about giving any love and kindness to those who need it, here on earth... and we do that IN THE MERIT of our loved ones who are already on the other side x x x x x x

  • Angel

    It took me ten months to  realize my daughter even died...I had dissociated because I couldn't touch it.....so when I came to after ten months I freaked out and ended up in a crisis unit overnight...talked the Dr. in the morning and he started the meds...I couldn't live without something to help....it then took me ten years to be somewhat normal..I can remember being afraid to move because she wouldn't know where I lived WHEN ..not ..IF she came back....I'm holding my own now...when she came and took my husband on her birthday....I knew she was OK...and it was a sign for me...we all need to have blind faith in the Lord....if I didn't think she was safe and at peace and my husband wasn't with her out of pain...my mind wouldn't be a part of me any longer...Peace! Angel

  • Stephanie

    wow Angel, it is so very rough... i hear what you are saying, what pain this is... what pain for a mother to endure

  • Michelle W

    Angel,
    You are not alone its 11 months and 16 months ago we bought a 5bdrm to have kids then grand kids live and enjoy with us,., if it became to big we would move..., I could never move now... As you said ( which makes me crazy to everyone) what if he came home how would he find me if I wasn't there???!so we will. E there now forever..,,and I now can't sleep again only 6 hours in the last 3 days.,,, just like when it happened....,I'm trying to tough it out....hugs to all today ... Another challenging day.,..,
  • Sophia

    Hi everyone.  Thank you Stephanie for your kind words and I hope & pray you are right about me seeing Jimmy again! As well as all of you seeing the child you've lost again one day! 

  • Karen R.

    Hello to all, wow, I panic over thought of moving anywhere. Not just from the fear of him not being able to find me....because this must be a horrible mistake, he must be lost. Then I go through phases of thinking, if he is "gone", then who will maintain and visit is final resting place like me? Who will care like me?....no one, because I'm his mom. I also go through the feeling of guilt if I moved away, I feel like my son will think I have moved on and "moving on" to me equates with this is all "ok" and it's not. I keep thinking that he will feel like I am like everyone else who in my eyes has forgotten about him. I just don't feel like I can move forward with anything, I don't feel like could ever be happy again. Happiness seems so unobtainable.

  • Sophia

    Hi, I know this isn't exactly what you mean however; I just read Karen's post & when my son first passed I also had fear he wouldn't be able to visit me from 'beyond', as crazy as this sounds I do believe the spirit lingers in our 'world' for some time before moving on. I had recently moved and he hadn't been to my new home. He had been out of town and then went to stay at his fathers home. He passed just weeks after he returned home. I had seen him, fortunately. I brought him some of his things to his fathers. I spoke to him last just one week before he passed. As parents we will always feel that we need to protect our children, be there for them - they should know how to reach us no matter where we are or what we're doing.  Also, I had my son's remains cremated only because I can not bare to have his remains laying in the ground. I plan to bury his ashes one day because I know he would want to have a grave stone memorializing his all too brief life. I hope he understands my needing to keep his remains close because he and I were so close. I also know I have to bury some of his ashes and give him the grave stone he wanted. I didn't know what to do as far as burial or cremation because I would never think to discuss with my children what they want done upon death - its always the other way around. A few months after his passing his girlfriend informed me that they had discussed it at one point and he wanted to be buried. I felt guilty and I wish she would've told me at the time I had to make the choice. Honestly we were both in shock and were not thinking clearly enough to stop to consider even discussing this. I stil feel a bit guilty but given that to a certain degree I do believe he is now free of all our worldly concerns that he understands that I didn't want to place his remains in a cold cemetary ground. Even writing this is mind blowing to me - I stil can't believe this is even something I have to think about! It's too much sometimes - other times its alway there (on my mind) but it is just so aweful to be writing this to be thinking all this to be living this.

  • Karen R.

    Yes Sophia, you said it so right!!! I still can't believe I write, type, think, say or even feel like my son passed away/crossed over. It just seems so unbelievable' yet I know this is the painful side of life. I side I wish I had been spared. Why did I think my children were exempt from this fate? If only my son would reach out to me and confirm that he is at peace and is truly ok. It's like I will only accept it from him because my faith has been broken, my comfort zone is gone, I took for granted that my children would bury me.

  • Sophia

    Karen, I too wish Jimmy would reach out to me. I have felt him, especially when I'm outside in nature and I focus on his face in my mind & think hard on my memory of his voice, etc. I don't know if I'm actually communicating with him but I hope I am.  I'v felt that he's telling me things I know he would based on knowing him. But I too will only believe that he is ok & at peace when/if I am given a sign by him. I'v considered going to a psychic but I'm weary of being BS'd. A friends husband passed away a few years ago and she went to a psychic who she claims was right on mark with her entire reading. I may go to that one but I'm not sure.  I know what you mean about thinking we're immune - most of us think this until...! I shutter at the thought of living with this for the remainder of my life. I also, for the first time in my life, have absolutely no fear of death. I don't wish for it by any means (as I have 2 other children) however I have no fear of it and will welcome it, when it is my time, in hopes that I will see Jimmy again. People have told me "he's watching over me", which is so cliche, but I do believe this is true.

  • Karen R.

    I too have the desire to speak with a medium. I am hooked on a show that comes on he TLC network called Long Island Medium with Theresa Caputo. I signed up for her waiting list, which takes years. It's so funny how someone recommended her to me a few weeks after my son passed, she had no tv show at that time and was just doing small group meetingd in her home or people would use her for medium parties, she was not famous then.  I kept contemplating calling her, I am so sorry I didn't. That was just about 3 yrs ago. She's been on Dr. Oz's show twice. I do believe that my son protected me and his little sister from a what would've been a fatal accident about a year ago. The car missed us by inches, literally, and the driver had to be going a minimum of 100 miles/hr. in and out the lanes. Just as he barely missed us, he unfortunately caused another car to swerve and hit the metal railing on the highway, it was horrific.  I saw it coming from my rear view mirror and braced myself, I just knew that my little daughter and I were gone, those poor people in that other car. I don't know why but I truly felt like my son helped us because I suddenly decided to change lanes just as the car was coming.

  • Angel

    Michelle...you aren't crazy ..and neither is anyone else here...we do the best we can with a horrible..the worst situation nay human can imagine...I've had a few dreams with Melanie in them and each one we are in a mall shopping for shoes..the funny thing is we both hated shoes and we both hated shopping.....Hse came to me the day she took my husband home and he was relieved from the pain of cancer...too coincidental thathe called her name for 2 days...and he passed on her birthday.....Peace! Angel..

  • Stephanie

    Angel that is amazing... the coinciding of dates is very powerful xxx

  • Stephanie

    U know what my dearest friends? We ALL worry that if we move they won't find us... this horrible feeling that we might be "moving on" without them. On the CONTRARY, our children are the very ones who have moved on!!  They are in such a high and special place. They know exactly where we are, at all times. I just know it. And one day when it is our time, they will come and greet us, to welcome us HOME. They are already at home. I too, also don't fear death at ALL, since the very moment my child moved on. Lots of love, Steph

  • Michelle W

    Stephanie, I don't fear death anymore either., I know I must be strong and show my daughter the way.., do that is my first job then honor my beautiful son ... He deserved so much better then what happened,,,I'm comming up on 11 months.., I can not sleep or even think straight I was doing ok now alot of stress???? I have been getting more done around the house but I hope this normal...,,hugs
  • Stephanie

    Michelle it's so so normal. 11 months is no time at all, still so sore. There is still lots of healing to come. Not being able to sleep or think straight is SO a part of our process. It's too much for the brain to comprehend. I took meds for some time to help me sleep. And trying to balance our emotions between grieving for our child, with being happy for our children still here on earth, is a very big challenge. This is our NEW NORMAL, and everything we talk about here, and everything we do and feel, is normal in our new normal. So long as we have each other xxxx

  • Karen R.

    Hey to all. I am feeling stuck in the day, month and year my son passed away. I feel like I can't move forward, not even sure if I want to. I am still in shock. I find myself, every day all day, trying to convince myself that this is all my imagination. I am still waiting for the break that so many tell me is coming, the day my grief and pain will lesson. It's amazing, that day has NOT come, I feel more sorrow with each sunrise. I just want my son back! I want him to have his young life back! I want my happy life back!!!

  • Michelle W

    Karen , I agree with you so much....going backwards to the day, month is happening alot more... I hear a song my mind immediately goes oh that's Ellvis oh he's dead.. My sons dead??? No that isn't right... Oh it is I think? Them I relive the accident in my head,,,,everything does that...I guess I'm waiting for some great sign to tell me this isn't true or that he's ok,,,,Hugs
  • Sophia

    Michelle what you experienced, losing your husband on your deceased daughters birthday is so profoundly touching! Reading that actually made me think, once again, there is reason for believing in a Higher Power. Things like that are not merely coincidental - it is God's hand & our children reaching out to us from beyond.

    Stephanie, you too have a meaningful & insightful point. I try so hard everyday to believe as you said; they have moved on and are at home.

    I was raised Catholic and I always half jokingly say I am a "recovering Catholic". I was tought by Nuns through-out Grammer & H.S. had a very strict home life which translates to alot of guilt and believing in Purgatory and essentially NEVER believing anyone deserves to go to Heaven. At my son's memorial service my father spoke and stated how my son is in Purgatory waiting to be accepted into Heaven. Not very uplifting thoughts/beliefs.

    Fall is a time of great change, followed by the holidays and then a long cold winter (at least here in the mid-west). I knew I would feel no reprieve as I do have some days when I feel 'ok'. I am also at the 11 month mark. I would like to hide out in a cave until January 2013 (I'm an outdoors person) & feel most at peace and closest to Jimmy when I'm in nature. I have to remain as strong as possible for my other children. This is so difficult for all of us. Jimmy passed 10 days after his brothers birthday, a week before Thanksgiving, leading into the Christmas season. I knew this would be the most difficult time (not that there is anytime anymore that isn't difficult), some days are a little better than others. The holidays are meant to be happy times but it is not a happy time for me any longer & it never will be again. I have disliked the preasure of buying all the right gifts, preparing the meals, having to see family which I have no desire to see, etc. Now all those feelings are intensified  Ofcourse, the holidays would be difficult even if Jimmy passed away in July . And as I began with, fall is a time of change - the weather, children return to school, Thanksgiving and the pressures of thinking about & planning Christmas. It just adds to our feelings of sadness. It is when many people commit suicide. Let us all remain strong to honor our deceased children. I know Jimmy would want me to remain strong for his little sister & brother and for myself. Our children would not want us to be sad and unhappy. I have to remind myself of this. Also, it is easy & quite common to suffer from depression this time of year. Add to this that we've lost a child!! Anyone who is feeling more depressed than usual or having thoughts of suicide PLEASE talk to a professional and  consider, possibly, taking medication to help you through this so very difficult and sad time.

    Sincerly, Sophia

  • Grace

    Sophia, last year, we had a member "Sandy" who did end her life...  She was so sad about losing her daughter... she left others behind... sooooo sad.  Yet I am sure many of us have lost the will to go on.... The holidays are very hard for all of us.... they were even before for me as you pointed out.  PLEASE IF ANYONE HAS THESE FEELINGS GET HELP...  It has been 3 Plus years for me... I still have very sad days.... but I have also had good days... my friends have carried me through.... and somedays I feel very alone in my grief... It really helped me when I found this site.... because friends and families sometimes can not understand us like the rest of us on this group.   I still have my bad days... but at least HERE in this group we can all vent more than we can to friends and family.... Somedays I know that they all are tired of hearing my down days.. and wonder if I will ever get "OVER IT".....  And they truely can not Get It unless they have lived it.....  PEACE 

  • Michelle W

    Sophie.
    I lost my 17 year old son two days after thanksgiving , my daughters birthday was Thanksgiving...so we do not want to celebrate Thanksgiving or Christmas anymore my son would have been 18 a week before Christmas ... I know my daughter needs me tourmendiously ..,,, and I will be there for her so I will have to endour all the pain of lossing my son...all I can hope is that she will recover in a good way and have the beautiful life I had planned for both my children.,,the holidays are horrible and all my focus is on is her birthday and my son.., so everything else will just be wrong this year.,,hugs to all..
  • Karen R.

    Hello everyone. I am glad yet saddened that everyone here...gets "it". I really believe that my friends and family are tired of me with my grieving, I feel like I still make them all uncomfortable. I try my best to hold my tears until I'm alone, even though that doesn't always work, sometimes I completely lose it out in public but at least it's in front of strangers. Funny how strangers can empathize and comfort you sometimes more than your own family or friends.

  • Karen R.

    Hey Michelle, many hugs back to you.

  • Angel

    Karen..that's because we're not really strangers...we;re actually closer than some family and friends....Angel xo

  • Karen R.

    Angel, you are right. I really appreciate everyone"s unending support.

  • Sophia

    So grateful for this site! Looking into going to a group near my home and aside from one on one grief counseling I have not been able to talk to anyone like I can on this site.

    Thanks everyone!

  • Grace

    This has served as my place to vent. I have been here for more than a year even though my Niles has been gone since May 2009.  It has been a rough 3 plus years I thought My marriage was falling apart... it may still be.  My other kids are grown.  I have not gone to grief groups.  I just feel like I have been so alone. ANd Yet I know there are families here that have lost a child... even several special needs children.  I still don't know about God...  I hear folks say Prayers for this or that... I guess I don't know if I can honestly say I can say aprayer for anyone.... like I don't have God.... or If I do I am so angry with God that I am too stubborn to ask him in prayer.  I still have strained relationship with my 83 year old Mother since she and my brother said mean things about me should of having an abortion instead of having my Niles..... She called last night and spoke to me like she did nothing wrong.... I know I should make peace with her before she dies but then again they have not given me Peace with comments like that.  It is so much emotions... I know it is hard to talk to others because I don't think they can truely understand the pain of having your Mother say this about your dead child.....  To them they think I should just forgive and forget... but I feel like a totally beaten down child.  And I just can't seem to believe there is a GOD that has dealt me such suffering... then again I feel like Why Not me? Why should it be others that should suffer..... I am not immune to this.... Life is so random....  Yet we see others around us not having these tortures....PEACE... Searching for it... still

  • Dick

    Hi, I haven't been on in a longtime. I think the anniversary of Danny's passing, holidays, and his birthday coming has overwhelmed me. I am not doing well emotionally. I still go to group therapy and have found out what is the problem; but no solution. I think there is no solution.

    The days just pass. I'm numb. I avoid people. I am really sad.

  • Dick

    I wish I could post new pictures or videos of Danny. But I have none, time stopped.

  • Dick

    I keep thinking about how we are in this world one minute, then gone.