Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by bluebird on November 22, 2014 at 11:08am

Kira,

I'm not religious at all (I'm agnostic/atheist -- not really sure which right now), but religion isn't always a "mental and intellectual cage". It can be, certainly -- but so can adhering to only one way of thinking about anything, insisting that the way one thinks about something is right. Your way of thinking can be a cage just as easily as Zell's can, or as mine can, or as anyone else's can.  It's fine to believe that reincarnation exists, but in order to avoid the "cage",  you should also consider that it might not exist, that your idea of how god/universe works might not be any more correct that Zell's, or mine, or anyone's.  I do think that the fundamentalist forms of any faith tend to be more cagelike, more restrictive, less allowing of free-thinking, but I also think that everyone needs to be aware that any kind of rigidity in thinking can do the same thing, and should try to avoid that.

I very much doubt there is a god, but there may still be one -- my not having seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ditto for Jesus, Krishna, or any other supposed god (or aspect of god). 

If you are willing to share it, I would be interested in how you have been out of your physical body (OBE? NDE?) and what, if anything, you did see/experience.

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Permalink Reply by Kira on November 23, 2014 at 7:15pm

Bluebird, you're right. Maybe I expressed myself not quite correct. Religion is probably just a step in spiritual growth. But if you get stuck in it, it limits your thinking.

You're right, I cannot be sure if my way of thinking isn't a cage. But at least in my own theory all pieces went together as one puzzle. I don't have any gaps as for example Dennis said. Whereas religion has a lot of gaps.

Also it's a bit difficult to discuss it because you haven't read Monroe books. I'm not advertising him, I just want people to get a bigger and wider knowledge than religion gives to us. Besides Monroe lived in 20th century and not 2000 years ago like for example Jesus Christ. So for some reason I trust Monroe more than Bible.

Now, why i am convinced that we do reincarnate. There's another amazing book that you might like written by Dr Brian Weiss 'Many lives, many masters'. Weiss is a psychiatrist/hypnotist. He accidently discovered that one of his patients remembered one of her past lives during hypnosis. After that he did past life regression through hypnosis for thousands people. If this is not convincing you, then what will?

I find it interesting that such intelligent people having good careers are talking about reincarnation. They sound sane and logical.

Also, I really didn't want to mention it, but I have a psychic ability. I have premonitions in my sleep. I dream about something and then it happens in a few days later. I had no idea where it comes from when it started happening to me. I thought that I might be going crazy or maybe I have a special gift from almighty God. But then I read Monroe books, and in the last book where he describes his meetings with his past reincarnations, he's asking them why he doesn't have any psychic ability? And they give him an answer - we thought you don't need any psychic ability but if you really want to have it, you just go to sleep and we do this work for you. So this was the time when I knew who's sending me premonitions through dreams. It's my own reincarnations, or angels as people often call them.

I can describe a few premonitions I had to sound more sane now. In September 2009 I saw my deceased friend in dream. He was caressing my hair. I remember very well that he had beautiful hair too, and my hair were really long and shiny, which was not true, because in real I had them much shorter. He was caressing my hair from the top of my head. When I woke up I thought that the dream is unusual but forgot about it soon.

Few days later I was attacked on a street by crazy inadequate gypsy women. They ripped a lot of hair off my head.  It was hurting for couple weeks.

Another premonition I had was in April 2014. In a dream I saw my mother. She was lying down and moaning from pain, and I realised that something's wrong with her. Then she said 'Light bleeding starts'. I got frightened and understood that I have to call for emergency. I picked up the phone and started calling. Then all of a sudden I woke up.

The dream scared me a lot. I knew something's going to happen. But I was not sure it's about my mother. In the dream she was hiding her face. She was lying on a side, and I could not see her face.

9 days later when I forgot about the dream a woman fell down from a staircase right next to my appartement. I discovered her, none of the neighbours opened their doors. The woman was lying on a side, and there was blood all around her head. I screamed and ran to call for emergency. The woman survived.

So it seems my mother was portraying just a moaning bleeding woman.

I've had dozens, even hundreds of such premonitions in the last 5 years.

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Permalink Reply by bluebird on November 23, 2014 at 7:28pm

Kira,

I appreciate your response, thank you. I can't agree that "Religion is probably just a step in spiritual growth", though. If there is a god, or anything spiritual, then I think there are many paths to it, and each religion is one path, just as your own particular brand of spirituality is one path. Different paths for different people.

I don't think I have read Monroe's books, but I have read many books on spirituality, the afterlife, religion, etc. I don't think that living in the 20th century makes a person any more or less correct in her/his spiritual views, and I'm not sure why you (or anyone) would think that. A lot of what is in the bible is definitely of its culture and timeframe, yes, but most of it didn't come from Jesus. I don't know if Jesus is god, but if he is, then the time in which he lived on earth is irrelevant, as a god would not be limited in that way (in my opinion).

I have read "Many Lives, Many Masters", and found it interesting, but it did not convince me that we reincarnate. Not the fault of the book or the author -- I am not fully convinced by anything other than my own experiences. As an aside, I do think it's possible that perhaps reincarnation is one option available to us, but not actually a requirement. If that is the case, I will never choose to incarnate again, at least not on this planet -- life here is too fucking hard.

Having psychic ability is completely normal and natural. It's a shame that it often isn't viewed that way, but it's just a natural part of being human, and is expressed differently in differently people (and to different degrees).

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Permalink Reply by Kira on November 23, 2014 at 7:33pm

I've had several OBEs. The first time I woke up but couldn't open my eyes. In fact I didn't feel my body at all. I woke up from...feeling dizzy. I was curling and spinning inside my own head. Not sure how to describe that... my whole body was spinning inside my physical head. But saying 'body' I mean not physical body of course. So, my energy was whirling. It was speeding up all the time, and I felt more and more dizzy and I thought that I might feel sick from it, but there was no any sickness. It felt like a centrifuge. Then, still spinning, I started leaving my head. I was lifting up still whirling. I thought then....'wait, how is it possible?! Where am I going?! I don't want to go from my body, I want to go back!!! Am I dying?! What's happening to me?! Oh please God, oh I don't want to die, no please, I don't want to die, I want to go back inside my body!!!' I kept pleading and begging to bring me back inside my body for something like...5 minutes? It felt like 5 minutes but it could be just a moment, I don't know. All I know is I was so frightened that I'm dying that all I wanted to go back. I looked around and it wasn't my room. It was night, and it was darak in real, but while being out of my body I saw black and red colours. They were making strange patterns, joining each other and pourring into each other. It was very beautiful but I was really scared. After a while slowly I started going down still spinning. I felt that the spinning was slowing down while I was coming back in. Finally when I was inside my...head, I opened my eyes. I remember that this experience impressed me a lot. It happened in 2011 but even today I remember it in every detail. I remmeber that feeling of leaving my physical body and how my energy can be moving when it's free from the limited physical form.

I know only one thing - it wasn't my own decision to go out of my body. Someone else helped me to do it. I remember it happened against my will.

Then I kept coming out in different ways but every time it happened against my will. Couple times I'd feel the vibrations that Monroe was talking about. Another time I left my body after a 'click' inside my head. It felt like I got detached from the physical body and then I started 'flowing' out of my head. A few times I would leave my body just by slowly lifting up. Every time I got so scared that I started pleading to come back inside my body and shortly was returned inside of it.

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Permalink Reply by dream moon JO B on November 25, 2014 at 3:52pm

i often get 2 s wear kira i dont even no hw got ther i dont 

even in dreams i feal lk iv bean 2 difrent plases 2 

evry now thn i can hear music in dreams 2 

but i no god can get us all mad he/she can iv bean so mad coz of 2 mush multi loss in lst 2 or 3 ys 

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Permalink Reply by dream moon JO B on November 20, 2014 at 3:10pm

its easy 2 get mad at god 

so i can scream why 

why us 

why its so not fair 

u sea mums dads on hear so sad coz of kids death so not fair

i wish i cud brink thm all bk 2 us but i no i cant

jo

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Permalink Reply by Kira on November 21, 2014 at 8:10am

JO B, you can do whatever you want. Whatever makes you feel better. Better, but not worse, OK?

I will give you one very simple suggestion - perhaps you've lost your relatives because they could do much more for you from the other side, than they could do while being alive. Just think about it. Everything happens for a reason.

Bless you darling.

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Permalink Reply by dream moon JO B on November 21, 2014 at 3:47pm

80s music i lson 2 i try 2 thn fotos as well as well as art iv duna lot of pen ink 1s wish i will kp 2 my slf i will

its missing prt its worst it is 

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Permalink Reply by bluebird on November 21, 2014 at 6:28am

There's no way to know if Kira is right, or if Zell is right, or if neither is right. In my opinion, Zell's view of god is not right, but i am as likely to be wrong as is anyone else. As for Kia's view, if that one is correct, that just means there is no god, only a petty despot.

I very much doubt if there is a god at all, but if there is any god worthy of the name, then it is well beyond the understanding or comprehension of any human, and writing books of rules supposedly set forth by that god, or writing books purporting to explain that god is just silly, and on my opinion, often the height of hubris.

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Permalink Reply by Kira on November 21, 2014 at 7:36am

Hi bluebird! The reason why I support Monroe's theory is because I've been out of my physical body just as him. I had an OBE several times. So I fully trust everything that he said and wrote, besides he sounded quite logical. If you read his books everything comes together just like the pieces of the puzzle - why we live on this planet, where did we come from and where we go after death. There's no death. Consciousness of every living being keeps on living and thinking after death, just like you're thinking right now.

I don't think that God is a despot, as I mentioned we all came to Earth willfully. It was our choice, and he just gave to us this opportunity. He created the system, the school for spirits to learn how to use the energy in different ways. Everything we do - we're working with different energies.

There's definitely a God. And we will become Gods in the end. Which is why we keep reincarnating. It's impossible to learn everything we need for it during one life, so we keep reincarnating untill we learn enough.

Really, I am convinced people should know this and should read Monroe books if they feel the need to know the objective truth.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis C. on November 21, 2014 at 7:55am

Kira

What you are describing sounds a lot like Mormon beliefs...

Just wondering?

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Permalink Reply by Kira on November 23, 2014 at 8:25pm

Dennis, I don't know anything about Mormons.

I'm really not religious. I'm having my own experience and trust my own experience. Plus when I found out Monroe books, I found out his experience fits mine perfectly.

Therefore I follow his theory.

My opinion is that all religions intuitively picked up the pieces from what is really going on in 'heaven' and on Earth. The rest is thought up by the human's imagination.

There're two ways of gaining the knowledge - intuitive and scientific.

The key thing is to keep the balance between these. If you go too much into religion you're on the edge and therefore coming off the balance. If you're too materialistic, once again you go off the objectivity and it's balance.

I believe in the spiritual non physical world existence, I believe we live on Earth for a purpose, and I believe there's a great meaning to our life. At the same time I'm quite materialistic and practical, and a bit sceptical.

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