Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ada Bowie on March 23, 2011 at 8:22pm

I'm very sorry for the loss of your son, Karen. I agree, anyone who hasn't experienced the loss of a loved one, could have no idea whatsoever of what it feels like. I remember that's how I was before: I had no idea the world could seem like such a dark place. I was happy and ignorant, my life changed so much in the last year, it's hard fot me to imagine how good it used to be. What I know is that now, if he would still be here, everything else in my life that's not exactly fine right now, would be completely alright. If he would come back to life (I know that's not the smartest situation to imagine), all my problems would just go away, I would stop worrying so much and feeling sorry for myself.

I don't know exactly how you feel, but I do know how you feel better than most people you know, probably. Obviously, I can much better identify with your daughter. I hope things get better for the both of you.

Anger: that I have, too. I don't really know why, it's not like I have anyone to blame for the death of my brother (though I wish I had), it was all nature's fault, and there's just no way I can be mad at nature. But I get angry because of other things: anything. If at school I get too much work and get stressed, I also get angry. And until now my "anger management" has been breaking pencils. And I always find pencils on the floor, so I'm not really wasting any money. I hope soon I won't feel the need to punch out a teacher.

There is something I noticed in my family and another family who also lost a child shortly after us (This family was helping us, and it was really ironic and bizarre that they, who were first helping us, were the ones in need of help shortly after (a couple of months). Their eldest commited suicide, and we were told that the death of my brother kept their son from killing himself for those couple of months). The parents want to built altars and monuments, decorate the house with photographs and talk about the person all the time; while the children don't want to talk about it, don't want to look at any pictures, and generally just... I don't know, keep things to themselves. In my family and this other family, this creates some issues, since parents always bring the person up and hang pictures everywhere and the children just do not want to look at them and not talk about it... I think I've repeated myself. I don't know if this is also the case in your family. If it is, let me know, I can maybe give you some tips on how to make thing a little more easy for your other children, and I can help you understand why it is this way.

I haven't been to any support groups or individual therapy, but I would actually really like to. I'm pretty sure I have at least some medical or phychological condition, and I would like to know about it.

About the letting people know how I'm feeling, I don't think I'm going to do that. My sister (whom I love very much, and I have really no idea what I would do without her) knows how I feel, we feel the same way, we act the same way, and we talk about it from time to time (rarely, but we do). My parents: I don't feel comfortable talking to them about it. My friends: it would make our relationship uncomfortable as well.  So, I doesn't make someone else uncomfortable, it makes me uncomfortable... A shrink, I would talk to honestly.

I do realize, though, while writing thing like this, that I have a lot to say. A lot to talk about. A therapist would do me some good, I'm pretty sure about that. Why I don't ask for one? Again the uncomfortable, money is also a problem there, and the fact that I don't think there are very good therapists in this country (Bolivia: one of the poorest countries of South America. Doctors aren't trustworthy: a doctor didn't see a broken rib on my mother's chest scan even though she complained about back pain without stop the whole time we stayed at the hospital), I really wouldn't feel very comfortable with a therapist in this country.

I really do talk a lot, I'm sorry.

Permalink Reply by Karen R. on March 23, 2011 at 11:46pm

Hey Ada sweetheart, you are very mature young lady......don't ever aplogize for thinking that you spoke to long.......it's good that you had something to say. You have to do what feels right for YOU and if you would feel uncomfortable telling friends and family how you really feel, then definately dont do it. Everyone is different and there are no laws or text books to tell you how to grieve or think. Maybe you can research online for for free therapy for grief or maybe confide in a teacher or school psychologist. If not, this site, along with others are great. Maybe you can google therapy for the loss of a sibling(brother/sister). It is difficult to talk to people that truly do NOT understand.

 

Well Ada, I must say, I have pictures of my son mainly in my bedroom and maybe 2 in the living room. I also had a gold charm made with my son's picture that I wear constantly. I have a photo brag bag that I carry everywhere with me. It contains photos of my son from when he was a baby, little boy, teenager and 21yrs old when he was killed. I have several pocket books, and a few designer handbags but eversince I bought the photo bag, I refuse to carry another hand bag. Designer bags seem so insignificant to me now, they seem so worthless, it means more to me to wear the bag that shows off my son. My children and my mother have tried several times to convince me to use another hang bag, they have even bought me brand new bags and I still wont use them.......I know that they didn't mean it but they actually made me very angry by offering me a new bag, I was very hurt. I also have a photo album with just pictures of my son and there was a time that any and everyone that came through my front door, was given it to look at, I wouldn't even ask, I would just give it to them. Now I dont do that, but I do ask. My children sometimes will take it away from me or put his picture face down when i am looking at them........that too makes me angry and very hurt. They think that they are "helping" me and they hate to see me in so much pain. I can only speak from a parent's point of view, I will give you some insight and you can give me some from your point of view, being a child/sibling. As a mother, there is NOTHING worse than losing one of your children, its not that you love that child more than the others, we would feel that way with anyone of our children. We are not given the choice of which child we would be willing to lose first........that would never happen, it would NEVER be an option, we dont want to lose ANY one of you! Children are suppose to bury their parents. With me, when I was told that there was nothing else they could do for my son to save his life, I felt like I died with him, I was screaming to the doctors" do something, that's MY son"!! I started to feel pissed off that the world was "going on" WITHOUT my son. My son is sooooooooooo much more than a "memory" to me, he had a life and he is and always will be MY son. He was robbed of his youth and I don't want anyone to forget him. I tried to explain to my children that when they dont talk to me about him, it makes me feel like they have forgotten him. There lies the conflict because they want to protect me, so they think by not talking about him often, will keep me from being sad but they don't understand that they cant break my heart more than it already is and will forever be.  This NOT an "OK" thing that my son is gone from me. I talk to him everyday and when I am out in public, I still look for him, hoping to still find him, feeling like he is losted  somewhere. The sadness is so overwhelming some days but my other children are the ones that keep me from going over the edge and taking my own life because there have been days when the sadness was unbearable. I would NEVER take my own life because I wouldn't want my children to have that much pain added to their lives.

Permalink Reply by Ada Bowie on March 24, 2011 at 8:52pm

My school psychologist also sucks, unfortunately. The only "patients" she has are little children. Their problems aren't so hard to deal with (usually, at least). I know she's not good because my sister told me that when she went to school shortly after my brother died, the pychologist seemed intimidated by her, insecure of what to say. Besides, if I would go, all my friends would know. And teachers... yeah, not them either. I think this site will have to do until I live in another country and preferably alone.

I understand the case is the same in your family (or maybe I read it wrong). I can maybe give you an insight on my point of view (and possibly also your children's). The thing is, everytime I look at a picture, I'm reminded of what happened to him, more than of him as a person. And when the picture does remind me of him as a person, and my little brother I loved so much, I'm also reminded of the fact that he used to be here, and is not anymore. Sometimes, for example, I'm watching something on TV, something funny, and suddenly my father walks in and starts talking about my brother without a reason, and I can't laugh anymore. I like to laugh, and fortunately, I still can, but when I don't think about my brother. Thinking about him nowadays wipes the smile off my face.
Maybe parents feel a certain obligation: like if they would NOT hang photos of their son or daughter around the house and talk about him/her all the time, people would think they didn't love him/her, or are bad parents because they are "pretending" he/she never existed.

Let me reassure you, we do NOT want to pretend he never existed; it's just hard to pretend he's still around.

I don't want to make you feel bad (really not), but honestly when my parents (most of all my father, my mother doesn't do it that much) talk to me about my brother, It makes me angry. It makes me feel like he thinks since my brother is gone, I have to comfort him and make him feel better. He even called me by the name of my brother once and then asked "Are you angry?" with a but-why-would-you-get-angry-with-me-I-didn't-do-anything tone. I once told him I had the feeling he would had rather had it was me than my brother (me and my father don't have a very good relationship, we fight a lot, even since before my brother died), instead of reassuring me that, no, he wouldn't, he told me "Do you have any idea how much that hurts me?". I know that might feel like an answer to you, but it's just another example of how my father believes he is the victim, everywhere and always, and it is SO annoying! As if I don't suffer! As if my life goal is to make his life miserable. Then he just puts on a sad face and walks around the house in order for everyone to notice how incredibly sad he is, to show us how evil we are to him, and how he, the father of the house, head of household, is so little respected! And it's the same with my brother, I feel like he thinks we should comfort him about it, because HE is the sad one. I just feel like he doesn't know how sad me and my sister, even my mother, are as well. So, in less words, when my parents cry, I feel as if they feel I should do something about it because it's worse for them. I sound very ungrateful and mean, I know, I'm sorry. But, that's (my parents crying) is also another thing I feel uncomfortable with.

The same person was a very different person to me than he was to my parents. To me he was that kid I did everything with. That kid I have no memories wherein he is not there. My baby brother whom I treated as a twin, and like every sibling, we used to fight (I think it's impossible for two people to spend so much time together and not fight. Fighting is normal), but make up and hug afterwards. But we really were like twins, naughty little twin kids, who, since their older sister was getting into puberty and did no longer tolerate to be seen naked by her stupid little brother and sister, would sneak up to the window and spy on her (even though there was nothing they wanted to see, they just wanted to piss her off). That was the sort of relationship we had, I swear to you, we even used to take showers together (don't misinterpret that, we were children). To my parents he's that kid who wouldn't be there if not for them, that baby they raised, the son they also loved very much. Someone they have to take care of...

I find it really brave of you that you don't take your life because of your other children. I don't because of my other sibling.

Permalink Reply by Karen R. on March 24, 2011 at 9:34pm

Hey Ada, thanks for your insight, you express your feelings very well. No one can tell you how to feel. It's unfortunate that tragedies like this sometimes result in tearing a family apart, rather than bring them closer. I try my best to hold my outwardly grieving, like my tears, my cursing and my screaming from all of my anger and emotional pain, until I am alone, I try my best to hold it in. Usually when I feel like I am becoming overwhelmed with my sadness..... I will remove myself from the room and go to my bedroom or the basement. Sometimes I leave and sit in my car or go for a drive. Sometimes I completely just fall apart in public around total strangers when I start feeling upset that the world is going on without my son. It's definately a battle to hide my pain sometimes but I really don't like for my children to see me like this, I know that it makes them worry about me. I think I understand a little of your feelings because of my children and I understand, more than I care to, of a parent's feelings on losing a child. I think it's great that you express your feelings on this site, especially since you dont have many options. Everyone grieves different, this part of life sucks, just please try to remember that NO parent wants to lose a child , we would NEVER volunteer. I am sorry for your pain and I do know that even when people don't see tears falling from your eyes, you may still have tears flowing in the inside. My youngest son who is 16yrs old, deals with the loss of his brother in his own way......he hardly ever speaks of him....unless its something funny, he's never gone back to the cementary and says that he NEVER will. When I asked him why he doesn't say much about his brother, he told me that it is NOT real to him and he has convinced himself that his brother is just away in another country, in school and that they can't talk right now. I don't bother him about it, I dont force him to talk about.....I leave him be, he has the right to deal with it the way he wants. He's never really been able to console me when he sees me upset, he will just walk away and that's fine because he has already expressed that he can not handle it. At first it use to bother me but once he explained, I was ok with it.

Permalink Reply by Ada Bowie on March 25, 2011 at 8:20pm

If I would be one of your children, I would really appreciate you holding your feelings in as much as you can. It must be hard for you, but I'm pretty sure your children respect you for it.

I used to be a cry baby, really sentimental. That has changed. Now I barely cry, the only times I cry now are because of my brother or when I'm really stressed (I don't know why, but I get really sentimental and vulnerable when I'm stressed). And I don't cry much anymore at all. I've actually cried quite little since my brother died. It should be the contrary, and I don't really know why I haven't cried much. What I do know is that now, whenever I see someone crying because they have boyfriend issues, I really want to scream at them. Tell them they're exaggerating, that it's not the end of the world, and that they have no idea what it's like to be really sad. So, that's another situation in which I get angry.

I know parents would never volunteer to lose a child, what I meant is that, if he could change things now, even though he would never admit it, there may be a tiny little chance he would have rather had it was me. I don't know, it may also just be me being paranoid and crazy.

I'm quite a lot like your son, I think. I'm the same age, I also hardly ever speak of him, I haven't been back to my ex-house, where he died, I haven't watched the funeral tape (since I wasn't able to actually go because I was in the hospital), and I don't want to. My brother doesn't have a grave because of very stupid geographical reasons. My parents couldn't decide to whether to put the grave in Bolivia, where he grew up and died, or in Belgium, where my family lives and where I'll probably be heading back to once I graduate (or earlier). So I can't not visit the grave, but if there was one, I also believe I wouldn't. I do, however, not pretend he's somewhere else.

It was quite different for me and the rest of my family. For one, I don't remember much (actually, nothing before one point) about the whole ordeal (I don't know if you've read my story or not, but it was very... catastrophic), second of all, I didn't go to the funeral. Third, since I had brain damage, I was unable to focus on anything for the weeks following his death, and I slept most of the time (I stayed at the hospital for about three weeks, and thought it was only one). So I think I didn't entirely understand, or was unable to think about it. I don't feel like many people really understand how I feel (besides my sister, I think no one). Most of all at school, no one seems to think what I went though is truly all that bad... I think I finally ran out of things to say. At least for tonight.

Permalink Reply by Karen R. on March 25, 2011 at 9:32pm

Ok sweetheart, that's fine.I have to look for your story. My son was riding his friend's motorcycle and was run down and forced into a car on a residential street, he wasn't even riding at a high speed, as I found out from eyewitnesses, he sustained a massive brain injury and passed away a week later while he was in the INTENSIVE CARE UNIT, he was the most critical patient they had for that week. He was only 21 yrs old....a baby to me, too young to be robbed of his life. I am still waiting to get justice for my son, I know who is responsible but there is a long, technical investigation, If they are not held accountable.......I think I will be with my son, I hate to say that but I think the stress of not getting him justice, will simply make my heart stop. My son's voice was silenced but mine's was NOT and wont stop until justice is served. This is why my anger is so intensified.

Permalink Reply by Ada Bowie on March 27, 2011 at 6:44pm

I'm very sorry for that... I hope you get justice, I hope they find a way to  hold that person accountable, that way you can at least have closure. I think closure is really necessary in cases like these. I don't know about closure in my case, I can't really be mad at the damn mountain, that's crazy. I could be mad at global warming, so basically everyone who pollutes... so everyone. And that's pretty unreasonable as well. So I just get mad at random things tha have nothing or little to do with my brother. Though when something that does have something to do with him comes up, I can get really mad and emotional. For example, I have this "friend", and so far (I'm becoming sort of obsessed with psychology) she might be: a psychopath with histrionic tendencies and narcissistic personality disorder. She lacks empathy and is a compulsive liar. She compared her lies with my actual problem: she told me "You lost your brother, I wish I could lose my father". First of all, I am pretty sure she's lying about that, second of all, as if it would be just as bad to lose someone you love as to want  someone you hate to die. The same person once told me I didn't tell her how my mother broke her rib (as an excuse as to why she wasn't telling us how something she made up happened), you have no idea how much I wanted to punch her out at that moment. She knew how my mother broke her rib! The same way my brother died! She is SO inconsiderate! Another thing she did: some days after I was out of the hospital (so about three weeks or maybe a little more after my brother's death) she told me she didn't know how to act around me in the hospital, because she was afraid of mentioning my brother. Yeah, three weeks after his death, I'm obviously already completely and utterly fine. she really has no idea how I feel. Not even a tiny little bit, and that makes it kinda hard being around her. I tried to ignore her, and it workd for some time, but she started talking to me again. Maybe punching her out will give me closure, but I don't think so.

Permalink Reply by anne on March 27, 2011 at 11:00pm

Dear Ada, I have been thinking about you alot lately.I talked to my oldest daughter today about you and what your gong through. Both of my son's were killed in car accidents 9 years apart. My oldest son was driving when the first one happened and my daughter was driving when my oldest son died. It's so very hard to deal with this kind of loss for your parents your siblings and you. I can't imagine how your feeling because I was the mom and not the sister so I talked to my daughter and asked her about it. You see when a parent loses a child it becomes so consuming and the guilt gets so irrational that sometimes we just don't think right. Things happen that are out of our control and as parents we think we can protect our children from any harm, but that's just not so. as a parent I  would never want any of my children to think that I would trade one for the other. That's just an impossible thing to even think about. This whole process takes time, lots of time. Please don't let your heart become bitter.  Finding a good counselor is hard , but I hope you find sosmeone you can trust. As far as others go, it's very difficult for people who have not experienced this type of loss to understand. Sometimes you just have to ignore some people in order to get through the ignorant comments. There's nothing wrong with expressing your feelings. In fact it's good to let them out. Can you talk to your mom? My oldest daughter talks to me about the accident that took her brother while she was driving. When she asked me why him and not her I really didn't know what to say . I don't think we get a choice when these things happen and it's nobodys fault when they do. Your life is just a precious as his was and it really doen'st make any difference which one dies. A loss is a loss and losing any child is a terrible, terrible   situation. Take your time in talking about your   brother. Talk when you are comfortable in doing so Look at pictures when you feel okay to do it. Everyone deals with this stuff in their own special way. there is no right or wrong in the grieving process. I have learned that getting through it was better for me then trying to get around it or trying to put it away.. After talking with my daughter I understand your pain, and I wish there was away to take that pain away, but unfortunetly it has to run it's course. I tell myself I can go 2 ways. I can let it drown me and consume the rest of my life or I can hold on to the love and laughter and wonderful memories I am left with. Survivor guilt is awfull. it can tear you up inside.You couldn't possibly know that this was going to happen anymore than I knew that my son's were going to die. Sadly we both know now how fleeting life is and how fast it can be taken away. My daughter could not attend her brothers funeral either. She was in intensive care at a hospital 150 miles away fighting for her life. She too was severly injured and suffered brain injury. She doesn't remember any of the accident and I think that's God's way of protecting her so I don't question it. I truly believe that funerals are for the living and that love is never ending. I know people don't act like they  know how bad your feeling but honest they do. It's just such a hard thing to deal with and very difficult to know what to say that it seems like they don't understand but some really do they just don't know how to express their feelings. Let's face it if people don't have to deal with death in this way why would ya. I know I wouldnt want to if I didn't have to. I guess I've talked enough. I so want to be here for you.  If you have questions you'd like to share I sure would ask my daughters their opinions if it would help you in any way. It's easier to talk to someone close in age who know's what your going through. so if I or my daughters can be of any help or comfort all you have to do is write.Sometimes life just kicks you in the teeth, That's why we are here to help eachother out. Take care and keep writingi

Permalink Reply by Karen R. on March 28, 2011 at 6:56pm

Greetings Anne....that is great advice and insight for this young lady and other youth that are unfortunately dealing with the loss of a sibling.

Permalink Reply by Ada Bowie on March 29, 2011 at 9:51pm

Dear Anne, it's interesting to learn you've been thinking about me. I must have made an impression on you. I hope talking about me to your daughter made her realize there are other people going throught the same thing as her. And if it did, I hope it made her feel better, not worse. I hope your daughter doesn't feel guilty... that could really mess her up. The night before that boulder fell on my house, it was raining a lot. It had rained like that before, and out garden used to flood, some places (the ground was really unlevel, so it wasn't the same depth everywhere) it would be about 50 cm (I have no idea how much that is in inches or miles or whatever). The water would never enter my house, though. But anyways, the night before (minutes before I went to sleep), one of my friends called me to tell me I should come sleep to her house that night, because she was afraid my house would flood. I told her nothing was going to happen, that it had rained like that before, and that my house never flooded, and that, besides, the rain was already stopping. I told her thank you very much for worrying, but that I was fine. I remember I had a gut feeling after hanging up, and I had the compulsive need to tell my family that she had called. After that I went to sleep and I never saw my brother again. So, besides the fact that we were both in the accident together with out brothers, that we both had brain damage and were severely injured, and many other things, your daughter and me also have a reason for feeling guilt in common. I do feel guilty about not saying "YES, of course! I'll come to your house right away!", and about not doing anything about my gut feeling, but in general, luckily, I don't really feel guilty about my brother's death. It wasn't my fault the mountan decided to fall apart that early morning. And it also wasn't your daughter's fault your son died. Everyone needs to realize that, in every case, anyone can find something to feel guilty about. Everyone always does. The thing is, as long as you didn't hold a gun to the person's head, it isn't your fault, no matter how guilty you feel about it. I don't know about my parents, but my sister, for example, also found a reason to feel guilty: months before the big fat enormous boulder fell, another, much smaller, boulder fell about 50 meters from my house. She told me she remembered feeling like someone was going to die when that boulder fell. She says she told my father we should move out, but he said it was no big deal or something like that. I my father remembers that, I'm sure he feels guilty about not saying "You're right, we're moving out tomorrow". I can't think of a reason my mother would feel guilty, but I'm sure he has one.

Anne, you should tell your daughter about this, maybe it'll lighten her guilt.

I also hope I find a good counselor, but I'm sorry, I don't feel comfortable talking to mymother about this, I can't quite figure out why.

I've also wondered why him and not me, and the worst thing is I have absolutely no idea HOW I'm not dead. Technically, I should be. I see no way I got out, I slept on top, and ended up in the living room seconds after my house collapsed. I just don't understand. So why the youngest of a family, a 14 year old kid, should have to die, and not his 15 year old sister, I simply don't understand, either. If there is a heaven, I feel guitly evertime I hope it was me and not him, because that means he is all alone up there, with no one he used to know his whole life. I still have my sister, and I can honestly say she's the most important thing to me in this world. But my brother would be all alone. And then again, if I would be dead and my brother alive, he would be the one suffering like I am now. That's another reason why I feel guitly when I hope it could have been me and not him. Ironically, in this case, it's selfish to wish you were dead and he alive... It's way worse to lose a loved one than to actually die. It's easy to die, it's hard to live. The reason why suicide feels just as selfish to me. I wouldn't sommit suicide becuase I would be leaving my sister to live a terrible life, and my parents's life would be over.

Thank you. If I have questions, I will ask them. If you have any, don't hesistate to ask them to me as well. I hope I helped with the guilt issue.

Permalink Reply by Karen R. on March 24, 2011 at 9:40pm

Hello to all members of this site/group. The struggle to find peace still continues.  I still feel such an emptiness and i still hope that I will awake from this nightmare.   Thanks for listening.

Permalink Reply by Karen R. on March 28, 2011 at 7:31pm

Hey Ada, you are right.........you can't punch people out!  No matter how tempting it may be, trust me I have been there a few times. Your "friend" can NOT possibly know how you are feeling. Every one is different, for me, when I feel like I need a hug...I'll ask the person I need it from to give me one. I have some days when I don't want anyone to touch me. Sometimes when I can't hold my tears and my screams, I just need someone to tell me that they are sorry to see me suffering like this or just simply hold my hand and say nothing. Especially if the person has NOT experienced such a loss of this magnitude. My 19 year old's boyfriend that was killed a week before Christmas 2010, his mother will call me sometimes at 3 or 4am in the morning and we will just sob on the phone and talk about our young boys that we have lost. Sometimes we say nothing at all and just cry. Unfortunately we have this bond, this common grief......it's so sad. I have talked her out of killing herself, she also has other children. She feels comfortable with expressing her grief with me but not with others. She does not want to join this site, she said that she can't operate the computer......she's old school lol! I will always be there for her, We both have the same amount of children, we are the same age, we have the same serious illness and now now we both lost one of our sons who are now burried about 50 feet away.

 

Ada sweetheart, we are on a emotional roller coaster. Parents are not perfect but I have always felt like I could fix any problem my children may have come across and I could definately fix any "boo-boo" they may have gotten. Mommy's kiss fixes everything. To have been told that there was NOTHING else they could do to save my son was not acceptable to me, I felt so helpless because there wasn't anything I could do to fix this, i couldn't make the "boo-boo" all better. I screamed and I begged for them to think of something else they could do, it hurt me triple because ironically I am a nurse! I help people all the time. My son was at the same hospital that was my employer. Your parents are hurting and so are you and your  sibling from the loss of your brother, no one can tell you how to feel, remember that goes for your parents too....no ONE can tell them how to feel, everyone's perception is their own. Keep writing sweetheart.

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