Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by bluebird on February 24, 2015 at 9:30pm

m morgan,

I'm glad my posts help you. I know they are not cheery and uplifting, but who decreed that posts about the horror of death and loss of dearest loved ones had to be cheery and uplifting? My posts are anguished, sad and angry, my lie is anguished, sad and angry, because I am anguished, said and angry, because my husband died one fucking week after our wedding.

I don't understand why people like Val and some others are willing and able to "move forward" with their lives. It's good for the that they are, if it's what the want, but it is not what I want, and it is not what everyone wants, and those other people need to realize that. I try to be genuine and forthright in my answers (I always have been that way).

I too, am only here because my body has thus far refused to comply with my wishes and just die, as quickly and instantly as possible. Certain things (playing video games or watching movies) can sometimes be very temporary, very lackluster distractions for me, but it's no life when the best moments consist of deluding yourself about the pile of rancid shit your life has not become. At least, that's how I feel, that's how it is for me.  That is no fucking way to live, and I. DO. NOT. WANT. IT.

I'm glad that my posts here help you, and help to relay your feelings as well.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by bluebird on February 24, 2015 at 9:38pm

m morgan,

I really am glad that my posts are helpful to you in some way. I know that my posts are not cheerful and full of light, but they are definitely genuine and forthright. I am, in my posts, as I a in real life.  I used to be a much happier, much more optimistic person. I had my beloved husband with me and loving me, I had a wonderfully loving family, and although I was agnostic I felt that if here was a god it was probably a loving god. But I've always been very forthright, it's just that my forthrightness had a more optimistic tone, because I had a more optimistic worldview.

I can understand that some people find a light after the death of a loved one, and as I've said, I think there are various reasons for that, depending on the person. Maybe they didn't love their partner the way I love mine, maybe they weren't soulmates; maybe they are a stronger person than I am; maybe they have more emotional wherewithal than I do. But it is not for me.  I will not ever want my life, now. I don't want false construction used to form a dim semblance of life, I want our life, or I want no life at all.

As you said, continuing in this life without the driving passion of my life is not possible. I fucking died the moment my husband died, why can some people no understand this??

I'm glad that my posts help you to feel that your view/experience has been validated and expressed as well. You are very welcome.

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Permalink Reply by Val Harden on February 26, 2015 at 2:11pm

You and Bluebird you are the minority. I've talked to many widows and widowers who want to heal themselves from the loss their wives and husbands. We have hope due to our different experiences how we express to each other in ways of healing and coping with our grief and  not just validating ones grief. I've have already helped 3 people who lost their loved ones by sharing my own experiences and also making them feel better,either just a phone call to know I care and thinking about them,listen to someone for hours who has no family and friends to give him the support and letting widows and widowers know about good support groups that won't make them  feel  more depressed when they leave.

These are not the Val's of this world Morgan. These are the people want to survive  and not to become victims of their own self pity.

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Permalink Reply by bluebird on February 26, 2015 at 2:36pm

Val,

We may be in the minority in your experience, but your experience is only that -- your experience. Stop extrapolating it out and assuming that it applies across the board. Believe me, while there are many people who feel as you do (wanting to move on in their lives, etc.), there are also many people who feel as I do.  Regardless, whether my view is the minority or yours is, or whether there are an equal number of people who feel as we each do, all of our responses are equally valid, every single one of them. You should not expect everyone to grieve as you grieve, to react to a spouse or other loved one's death as you do. It is mind-boggling that you do seem to think that yours is the only way.

Yes, there are many people who want to heal and cope, and if that is what they want and they are able to do it, then I sincerely hope they can, and if you are able to assist them with that, good. But if you really wanted to help everyone, not only those who feel as you do, then you would stop telling those of us who feel and grieve differently than you do that we are essentially "grieving the wrong way".

Just because there are people that are able and want to continue to live even though their soulmates/spouses/partners have died, that does not mean that those of us who do not feel that way are wrong, regardless of what you think about it. Sure, there is some self-pity involved, as there damn well should be -- the person I love most in this universe has been taken from me, and that was not prevented by your supposed loving god. But it is not all self-pity, by any means, it is anguish, and that anguish is justified.

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Permalink Reply by Val Harden on February 27, 2015 at 2:01pm

blue bird,You are the exception. Majority widows and widowers want to heal and all them want to  live nor die once they realize they are getting better. Though they are getting better,they are still grieving.  But thing for sure they have moved on from wanting die and don't want live. Grieving does not include wanting to die for long period  time after a loved one dies.

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Permalink Reply by bluebird on February 27, 2015 at 2:21pm

Val,

As I said -- in your experience, I am (and other people who feel as I do are) the exception. However, your experience is limited, as everyone's is (including my own).  Also, given your apparent inability to understand or sympathize with the way people like me feel, my guess is that you've probably met some people who feel as I do, but they don't share that with you.

I have met some people who feel more as you do, in that they want to get over their grief and move forward in their lives, and I have met some people who feel more as I do. In my experience, it's been about fifty-fifty, as far as how many felt one way and how many felt the other. So no, I am not the exception.

The fact is that some people -- not just me -- do want to die when their spouse/partner dies, and will always want to die because their spouse/partner has died. For some of us, grieving does always include wanting to die. That you don't seem to know anyone like that in real life (though you have "met" some of us online, on this site), or that you don't believe that's how it is for some people, doesn't change or negate that fact.  That IS how it is for me, and for some of the other people who have posted in this thread.

Permalink Reply by Pam on February 28, 2015 at 12:28am

I feel I must comment here. Bluebird is right - there are many of us who wish to die when we lose our spouse. My beloved died 18 months ago and I have asked and prayed to die every day since then. This site gives me a safe place to express my wishes and there are others here who really do understand. They don't tell me Im an exception, or that I should move on/get over it. We are all unique and for some of us, losing our spouse means that life is pointless. I just don't want to be here. Others like Val find some way - that's good but its not the same for everyone. This isn't a debate and no one should feel they need to explain or justify their feelings. It just is.

Permalink Reply by Pam on February 28, 2015 at 6:07am

Val - My grief DOES include wanting to die and this will be the same for as long as I'm here. You are not me, you don't know me or my beloved husband and how being here with him gave me life. When he died, so did I - apart from my body which just functions against my will.

So please refrain from making statements about what grief should or should not include for others. You really don't know another person and how grief is for them. If you are unable to find a little understanding for anyone grieving differently from yourself, maybe you need to stay away from this thread. Helping others is about walking with them, not telling them what grieving should/shouldn't be. There are plenty of resources available on how to help someone who is grieving - and ALL of them advise that each person will grieve in their own way. You have found YOUR way which works for YOU - but to emphasise - we are all different.

Please could you find a way to respect that as other posters do - this thread is about support, tolerance and above all understanding and compassion for one another.

Permalink Reply by Blue Swan on March 1, 2015 at 3:50pm

According to Val, I am in the minority group too, so I was reading it today and I want to share it. This is from a site named "Refuge in Grief' by Megan Devine:

"... I'm going to post this here, because I can. I refuse to allow someone's belief in their own "helpfulness" to be a cover for poor behavior.

A "helpful" person posted an article about finding joy in the death of someone who had been suffering a long time. They posted this to a grieving person's fb timeline, with the directive that they maybe should look at their own grief differently. "A different perspective," they said.

What they REALLY said was: you are doing your grief wrong. Look how this person is finding the JOY in it. Relief, even. You should try that. Quit being so sad and find the JOY.

My friend so very much wanted to say, "how about you not tell me how to grieve, and I won't tell you how to stay sober." She did not, because she has more respect for the sender than the sender has shown to her.

People, no one, NO ONE, likes to be told how to feel. No one likes to be informed on the course of their heart or the content of their mind. Comments like this are not helpful. They are not kind. And no matter how the speaker may try to spin this as having their heart in the right place, that is a lie. There may be a seed of compassion in there, but it speaks more to the sender's inability to witness great pain. It speaks more to their lack of understanding, and their belief that they know what someone else needs better than that person does.

If someone has not asked your advice, don't give it. Tada: simple. Honor each others hearts and minds. Presume, unless told otherwise, that each person is sovereign in their own life. Offer your support, yes, but offer your support by ASKING, not by telling.

Don't paste positive shit on peoples' timelines and tell them they are grieving wrong. Cut it out." Megan Divine.

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Permalink Reply by bluebird on March 1, 2015 at 4:57pm

Well said, Blue Swan -- thank you. 

Thanks also to Pam and Lori (I'm not able to post replies to your comments, for some reason).

Permalink Reply by bluebird on February 22, 2016 at 6:47pm

Absolutely right, Blue Swan.  Oddly (?) enough, I have encountered Megan Devine's writing before, and found it helpful.  I think she is the first person I encountered online who feels as I do about all this shit.

Val was wrong, plain and simple. She refused to acknowledge or understand that not everyone experiences grief and pain as she does.  She viewed things in a very black & white way, when in fact life is not like that at all. But her opinion on the way we feel is irrelevant. We know how it actually is for us. 

Permalink Reply by HollowHeart on February 25, 2016 at 1:03pm

This passage was refreshing to read. The worst thing someone can tell you is to just stop being sad and find Joy in life. I don't get people who think you wake and go "Ok, not sad anymore! Yay!"  This is not a choice! About 90% of the things that brought me joy involved my sister, so that's a helluva a percentage, so no, I can't just be happy now. I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Bluebird, it's nice to see you again.

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